tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post3659875521480591869..comments2023-11-03T05:50:18.057-04:00Comments on Libertas and Latte: Acknowledge our invisible sky-God...or elseConstitutional Insurgenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03251746798758539951noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-20755596437300298572014-12-01T13:33:42.515-05:002014-12-01T13:33:42.515-05:00The Southern Poverty Law Center concerning the AFA...<a href="http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/american-family-association" rel="nofollow">The Southern Poverty Law Center concerning the AFA</a>.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-29890178300819531252014-12-01T13:21:24.736-05:002014-12-01T13:21:24.736-05:00"Here it is: Don't be a racist."
So..."Here it is: Don't be a racist."<br /><br />Sound advice, and I'll certainly take it to heart. Thanks.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-7256623141897709792014-11-30T22:22:38.258-05:002014-11-30T22:22:38.258-05:00(And yes, I am using it within common usage. And y...(And yes, I am using it within common usage. And you keep insisting on its "Relevance" here. dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-25827035638797672782014-11-30T22:21:56.131-05:002014-11-30T22:21:56.131-05:00"....relevant-but-not-central detail"
y..."....relevant-but-not-central detail"<br /><br />you have completely failed to show that it is relevant..<br /><br />"We Must Never Mention Race, Or Else We Are Racists And Bigots"<br /><br />If you bash for race, you certainly are a bigot.<br /><br />"As far as I can see, you've focused in a relatively unimportant detail"<br /><br />It sort of calls into question the rest of any argument you make, when you insist on the "relevance" of skin color here. And the point that all the members are elderly. <br /><br />"if you have some constructive criticism to offer,"<br /><br />Here it is: Don't be a racist.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-86101877923184168402014-11-30T22:05:39.412-05:002014-11-30T22:05:39.412-05:00Dude, as far as I can see, the only person who thi...Dude, as far as I can see, the only person who thinks that "mostly-white" was an important part of my criticism is... you. I've been trying to figure out if there was some basis for your singling out something that I considered a relevant-but-not-central detail, but as far as I can see the only problem with it is that it violates some personal rule of yours that We Must Never Mention Race, Or Else We Are Racists And Bigots - a position which, frankly, strikes me as nonsensical, since it requires redefining both "racist" and "bigot" well beyond the bounds of any common usage. As far as I can see, you've focused in a relatively unimportant detail to such an extent that you've missed the point of what I wrote; and if you have some constructive criticism to offer, it's apparently lost on me. So I don't see any particular point in either of us continuing the conversation, since we're clearly talking right past each other.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-50902991821057874812014-11-30T19:02:46.400-05:002014-11-30T19:02:46.400-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-78403166451919740042014-11-29T12:18:47.410-05:002014-11-29T12:18:47.410-05:00It's the supposed skin color of the AFA member...It's the supposed skin color of the AFA members that is seemingly "so important" here. My point? That your insisting on this "importance" and the racism inherent in this criticism detracts from very real, and valid, criticisms of the AFA. C.I. is capable of criticizing the AFA without irrelevant racism. Why aren't you?<br /><br />Only a bigot would bring up skin color as part of criticism of someone. Your racism and defense of it is deranged, not "entertaining".<br /><br />I could deny the racism in your irrelevant bashing of people for skin color, but then I would be lying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-64252621610057443972014-11-29T12:05:11.793-05:002014-11-29T12:05:11.793-05:00"It is nonsense and poppycock to claim that r..."It is nonsense and poppycock to claim that race matters to anyone other than racists."<br /><br />You keep repeating that basic point, and it keeps making no sense whatsoever to me. If it's that important to you, would you <em>please</em> make some effort to explain how that's so? In something other than vague generalities? ("'Being about race' more often than not ends up being racist.") At this point, I <em>still</em> can't tell if you think you have a valid point to make, or if you're just playing Devil's Advocate.<br /><br />Look, I'm bashing the AFA because as far as I can tell their business model is built around taking advantage of people - scaring them with "threats" to their religion, when those threats are at best exaggerated, and at worst made up out of whole cloth. Race, age, and religion are relevant because the AFA targets people who fall into those categories. <br /><br />Now, if you want to make the argument that anything that mentions race is inherently racist, go ahead. I disagree, but I'll listen. So far though, you haven't done anything except assert that such is self-evidently the case. <br /><br />Likewise, if you think my understanding of the AFA's goals and methods is flawed or mistaken, feel free to enlighten me. So far, though, you haven't done that either; and I haven't seen any indication that you intend to. <br /><br />If you're trying to prove a point, then show your work so I can follow along. If you're one of those people who enjoys arguing for its own sake, well... there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I feel no compunction to entertain you.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-59809314381653650102014-11-29T06:09:41.145-05:002014-11-29T06:09:41.145-05:00It is nonsense and poppycock to claim that race ma...It is nonsense and poppycock to claim that race matters to anyone other than racists.<br /><br />And yes, still racist for you to again bash the AFA for the perceived skin color of its members. There are indeed valid reasons to criticize the AFA. But that is not one of them.<br /><br />No, I don't pretend it doesn't matter. Because such things do matter because there are a lot of bigots.<br /><br />As for "mostly elderly", yes you are exhibiting bigotry there too. Do you have any specifics to back that up?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-42503566741641979342014-11-28T21:45:30.298-05:002014-11-28T21:45:30.298-05:00"'Being about race' more often than n..."'Being about race' more often than not ends up being racist."<br /><br />How so? If you insist that anything talking about race in inherently racist, then any number of sociological studies (to pick an obvious example) are racist. <br /><br />"The thing is, you used the race of the AFA's members as part of criticism of it. A silly criticism to make,. because as I pointed out, any average/representative group in the US will be white."<br /><br />I honestly can't tell if you're trying to make a valid point, or if you're just trying to be contrarian, here. I specified "mostly-white" because, as far as I can tell, the American Family Association's mailing list/donation requests <em>are</em> aimed at a demographic that is predominantly white to a degree that doesn't even remotely resemble a typical/average sampling of the population in the United States. Also, I notice that you don't object to my ageist description of that same demographic as "mostly-elderly", even though it's no more or less descriptive than "mostly-white". <br /><br />"Remember... race matters only to racists, bigots, and other similar folks."<br /><br />Nonsense. Poppycock. And other such terms of dismissive disagreement. Race matters to the people affected by it. It may be an arbitrary social construct, and one that we'd be better off without, but that doesn't even remotely mean that nobody should talk about it or we should all just pretend it doesn't matter.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-34718039548325429912014-11-28T10:52:51.964-05:002014-11-28T10:52:51.964-05:00dmarks, I agree....however, I don't believe th...dmarks, I agree....however, I don't believe that the 1st Amendment protects a right to use [as I've stated before] an official government venue - without the benefit of voluntary association - to endorse or convey one's personal feelings towards a religious belief. It's not as if government venues are the only arena for expressing ones personal belief system...in fact, far from it. Keeping the business of government secular, inflicts absolutely no harm or deprivation upon the citizen, since said endorsement or expression is not a fundamental component of civil government.Constitutional Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251746798758539951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-63081718414468455682014-11-28T08:53:27.947-05:002014-11-28T08:53:27.947-05:00As long as we don't follow Jersey's line o...As long as we don't follow Jersey's line of reasoning that it is OK to punish and persecute individuals for their Christianity because Christians are a "controlling majority".<br /><br />There is absolutely no justification for denying an individual's rights, least of all whether or not that individual is perceived to be in a "controlling majority".<br /><br />For my part, I respect Jersey's right to his faith (which happens to be hard faith-based Atheism), and this is without any regard at all to how many practice it: whether or not it is just he himself, or 100% of the people practice it. It makes no difference at all.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-20702769170612168852014-11-28T08:50:00.278-05:002014-11-28T08:50:00.278-05:00Jersey: Your statement makes no logical sense. Whe...Jersey: Your statement makes no logical sense. Whether or not individuals are denied rights based on their faith (and no, I don't think this is the case in this instance) has nothing to do with the intellectual sloppy and careless statements about such a group being a "controlling majority".dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-41286726433771292332014-11-28T08:48:13.028-05:002014-11-28T08:48:13.028-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-46710273023635891522014-11-27T22:11:29.470-05:002014-11-27T22:11:29.470-05:00In what sense do you see the description as racist...In what sense do you see the description as racist (as opposed to being about race)?Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-73017680437942010392014-11-25T18:44:58.218-05:002014-11-25T18:44:58.218-05:00".one can also reserve one's personal opi...".one can also reserve one's personal opinion [belief] for their personal life and activities."<br /><br />The First Amendment protects the right to not keep them secret, though.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-73806687376457282812014-11-24T12:10:12.901-05:002014-11-24T12:10:12.901-05:00I certainly don't have a handy list of ACLU ca...I certainly don't have a handy list of ACLU case files, but I draw a hard line at an individual acting in an official capacity, and/or at an official venue, espousing the endorsement of a religious belief. These are the cases I was referring to. It is not a mandate nor in the purview of government, at any level, to endorse religion.<br /><br />Though one can sit quietly during such activities....one can also reserve one's personal opinion [belief] for their personal life and activities.Constitutional Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251746798758539951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-42582244806526187222014-11-24T10:50:26.392-05:002014-11-24T10:50:26.392-05:00I disagree if it is being a mere "conduit&quo...I disagree if it is being a mere "conduit". That is free speech. The ACLU attempt to wipe this out is against civil liberties, tolerance, and the First Amendment. If you don't like what someone says, sit down and shut up and ignore it. Don't file a frivolous lawsuit to force the government to go all North Korea on the offending individual. And yes, so many of the ACLU's frivolous/harassment/censoring cases definitely involve the group harassing individuals for expressing their views.<br /><br />However, I do definitely draw the line at any government expenditures to support anything like that. That crosses the line into state sponsorship of religion.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-36011100343589472542014-11-24T08:13:24.910-05:002014-11-24T08:13:24.910-05:00There may be similarities in some situations, but ...There may be similarities in some situations, but certainly not in cases where people have used government venues in their official capacity as conduits for their religious beliefs.Constitutional Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251746798758539951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-28180161236369079732014-11-24T08:10:41.836-05:002014-11-24T08:10:41.836-05:00"....contrived outrage..."
It is simila..."....contrived outrage..."<br /><br />It is similar to the ACLU wasting taxpayer dollars with frivolous lawsuits to censor public officials/etc who use "religious" speech that the intolerant bigots in the ACLU don't like. As opposed to stopping real dangerous things,such as government enforcing religious doctrine.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-9793726593136189912014-11-24T05:16:44.859-05:002014-11-24T05:16:44.859-05:00Wise words!Wise words!Constitutional Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251746798758539951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-9786209680388243062014-11-24T05:16:29.463-05:002014-11-24T05:16:29.463-05:00I realize that I am likely viewed as an opposition...I realize that I am likely viewed as an oppositionist when it comes to religion, but I truly believe that groups such as the AFA damage the brand and the appeal of faith, with contrived outrage. This PetSmart issues has been only one of many.<br /><br />My dog has her own Christmas stocking and gets themed treats at the holidays.Constitutional Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251746798758539951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-63098875987314486582014-11-23T07:37:19.710-05:002014-11-23T07:37:19.710-05:00My father had a little saying: "[Insert perso...My father had a little saying: "[Insert person's name] knows as much about [insert topic] as a hog knows about Christmas."Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-29731580211235246152014-11-23T07:35:37.375-05:002014-11-23T07:35:37.375-05:00.I was in PetSmart last week. Lots of candy canes....I was in PetSmart last week. Lots of candy canes for puppy dogs and stocking stuffed with kitty and doggie goodies. Those items are Christmas <i>per se</i>, of course. But the store is indeed decked out for the Christmas season.<br /><br />I am a Christian, but the last time I checked, my kitties don't have any knowledge of theology.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8860387354345137184.post-25679195353660137722014-11-21T08:48:17.599-05:002014-11-21T08:48:17.599-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.com