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Saturday, May 16, 2015
Never Again.....
My visit to Dachau the weekend after the 70th anniversary of it's Liberation by Allied Forces.
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Did walking through Dachau give you the heebie geebies?
ReplyDeleteIt was actually quite serene and peaceful. My wife is quite sensitive to 'spirits' [she's seen ghosts all throughout her life]. She pondered if that feeling of calm was by design of the souls watching over the camp.....if people were made to feel fearful or creeped out, they may not stay or come at all. And Dachau is a place that should be visited....to remind us of what man is capable to inflicting upon our fellow man.
DeleteJust a thought anyway.
CI,
DeleteThank you for responding to my inquiry.
Interesting about your wife's gift. I don't have it, but I do know someone who does -- or seems to, anyway.
What is the significance of Photo 8?
ReplyDeleteThe photo in question is all that remains of the train tracks and platforms outside the camp.
DeleteJust think of all the misery suffered there!
DeleteWell, if we avoid hyper-nationalism, jingoism, idolizing the military and police states, mixing religion with politics, allowing the corporate sector to purchase our politicians, and it won't happen again.
ReplyDeleteJMJ
Even if we avoid those things [which we can't because their opiate to the masses....those who desire power, will find a way.
DeleteWe're already heading down the road where perceived 'safety' will start to rule the actions we're allowed.
Jersey, really, while everything you name has been a problem in some situations, the vast majority of these sorts of problems would have simply not happened at all, or hardly happened if:
Deletewe kept government small.
It has happened several times since, Jersey. Even with some of what you identify as a problem not present (i.e. in socialist states with atheism as the official faith and no private sector at all sector at all).
ReplyDeleteThere hasn't been anything like WW2 since WW2, dmarks. And what you're describing in socialist totalitarian states never existed. They were far more complex organisms, and the damage they caused was for different reasons. There was some persecution of religion, but either from pre-existing hostility to a foreign religion or suppression of the domestic religion, in other words, amongst each other. The mass casualties of the great social experiments in Russia and China were not caused by atheism - or religion at all.
ReplyDeleteIn the West, religion has always played a role in the rise of Fascist states. The religious right is almost always standing behind the dictator, from all the way back through Western history.
JMJ
Jersey: There's never been EXACTLY the same thing as anything else. and what I have described as existing in socialist totalitarian states is an unfortunate reality, and part of history. In fact, it is typical.
Delete"Some" persecution by militant atheists toward those of other faiths was an intrinsic part of the mass murders of tens of millions.
Your "In the West" arbitrary line leaves out most of the worst such states in modern history (going back a century or so). Those which show that militant Atheism and the suppression of private business (not the presence of it) is far deadlier than the Religious Right and corporatism.
Even in the West, well, the most brutal and enduring fascist state in the hemisphere has all non-Atheist faith crushed and has very little private sector.
And about WW2? While the Nazi regime was shockingly horrific and indefensible in every way, if you look at the WW2 era, you will see that it is even more a time of successful aggression by a regime with militant atheism and no corporate sector... which killed many more people than Hitler did, and successfully conquered many nations (something Hitler failed to do).
DeleteIf there is any lesson here (looking globally, not just an arbitrarily chosen region), it is that militant any stripe of faith (especailly including Atheism) is bad, and that there is much much worse danger from those who suppress private business than there is from private business itself
You seem obsessed with the semantics of "religion" here so I'm just going to say, right out, every one who knows the subject, knows the religious right, HERE IN THE WEST WHERE YOU AND I LIVE, has serious fascist leanings, and through history, have always been behind the dictators. It makes perfect sense.
DeleteJMJ
Just calling you on a generalization:
Delete"...and through history, have always been behind the dictators. It makes perfect sense."
Yet. looking at the worst dictators of history, this isn't true. Though they are behind SOME, and a threat, it is true.
And not obsessed Jersey. Just pointing out that you are overlooking the most common paths to fascist regimes, huge genocides, etc.
Deleteso-called "gun control" is often a common hallmark of an oppressive fascist regime out to slaughter the unarmed... not surprising you left this out. But it is no less of a danger than the presence of a Religious Right is.
The sorts of people who are advocating gun control in America today are nothing like the kinds of people who did that at some points and places in the past. Plenty of countries with strict gun control laws have NEVER suffered such.
DeleteYou are mixing up historical references without context. It's just silly. Be serious.
JMJ
They are very bit like those people, Jersey. Enablers of fascism... arguing passionately against the rights of the people and in favor of more power for the privileged few at the top. No genocidal regime would have gotten anywhere without these enablers to cheer them on, help them gain power, and help them keep power.
DeleteThose who argue that our basic rights should be taken away in this area (gun control) are so very similar to those who argue in favor of a state religion, against a free press, and the like.
"Plenty of countries with strict gun control laws have NEVER suffered such."
But most have. Look at several Western European countries, so happy to goose-step along with Hitler and all... it's all part and parcel, part of a cultural weakness of slavish obedience to the ruling elites, which isn't quite gone there. Those who today roll over when the rulers take away their basic rights have too many similarities to the 'good Germans" of the bygone era.
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I am not mixing up historic references at all. I am looking at things clearly, and without any sort of double-standard that you are using to arbitrarily exclude the worst regimes from your list.
In the case of gun control, the problem is that there is this one particular hallmark of a brutal totalitarian/fascist regime. a situation of government abusing its power over the people... that you are favoring.
We're not jingos, dmarks. That's the big difference.
DeleteJMJ
Oppressive policies with or without "jingoistic" rhetoric are all the same, Jersey, when you turn down the volume knob.
DeleteUgh, I hate moderation. Is it really necessary?
ReplyDeleteJMJ
Hopefully not permanent. But I'm not sure I want to test the waters again, when I have no access to blogger during the work day.
DeleteCI: You could ask for common courtesy, and there not to be unwelcome comments and/or persons making them.
DeleteOtherwise... well, there's a reason why there are locks on doors in the real world.
Well, being that I still get dozens of unwanted comments every week from the very same numbskull, I suspect that CI just might have to retain this feature going forward.
Delete